jon
Rookie
Posts: 279
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Post by jon on Mar 13, 2013 16:33:41 GMT
You've still not included tax, which is probably one of the most expensive costs there is. So, I make it that if we don't include tax there is a £72,500 shortfall for a season. If we reduce the income by 20% to take into account VAT that reduces the total income to £356,312. A reduction of £89,000! (of course, you wouldn't take 20% off everything, but I don't want to take this too seriously... ) That means our shortfall if you include tax on a season is £161,588. I don't know where there's money in advertising in Fife for that amount! Obviously as you state your numbers are plucked out of thin air, but you need to cater for the single most expensive cost there is to have any real idea. I don't think this is taking it too seriously. From that then, playing 11 imports must be very difficult. Some skill required to balance the books. Perspective, perhaps?
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tam
Junior
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Post by tam on Mar 13, 2013 17:01:00 GMT
take the skate prices and quantity as gospel , that came direct form the guy who supplies them, i nearly laid and egg at the price, needless to say may son plays in cheaper skates just now
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Post by daviejojo on Mar 13, 2013 17:33:21 GMT
Tax is the one bit I'm just not sure how to calculate to be honest. I would imagine, like any business, there will be some very clever accounting. If Starbucks can pay £30K a year when there is technical 10's of millions, I would be surprised if the tax for Fife was very simple either.
You are right of course though, there will be some tax payments due, that's a gimme, but this, I would imagine, is about as far as we can take the best guess numbers.
What it does show though, is there are a lot of costs to take into consideration, not just simple wages, but....
I still think we can afford to go 11, based on the other teams doing it :-) :-)
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jon
Rookie
Posts: 279
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Post by jon on Mar 13, 2013 17:39:36 GMT
I would like to hope that they weren't dodging tax to be honest, maybe I'm naive.
Anyway, tax would need to be included even if not at the amount above, so it's certainly somewhere in between. Regardless, I think the deficit is still pretty high and supporting 11 imports would be difficult.
The main crux (as mentioned by others in the past) is that Kirkcaldy is unfortunately the poorest place out of all the other locations that have Elite League ice hockey teams. The recessions has hit Kirkcaldy particularly hard, and the knock-on will be that the advertising money won't be there as much as the other teams.
But hey, it's a vast improvement on last season already. It'll only get better with improved networking, and it is.
Enough money chat for just now - off to catch a bus to Braehead.
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Post by daviejojo on Mar 13, 2013 19:51:37 GMT
Have fun at Braehead.
Just to add though, didn't mean fiddling tax, I'm talking about perfectly legal tax loop holes. Like most businesses I am sure they will maximise the system
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jon
Rookie
Posts: 279
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Post by jon on Mar 13, 2013 22:04:25 GMT
Ah alright.
Wish Braehead was fun :-(
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Post by sparkymark75 on Mar 18, 2013 23:48:17 GMT
According to documents in this Belfast Giants soap opera, each team pays the league £1700 per month to cover running costs and referees. One to add to your calculations
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finchy
Pro
Posts: 1,567
EIHL Team: Fife Flyers
NHL Team: New Jersey Devil
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Post by finchy on Mar 18, 2013 23:55:02 GMT
According to documents in this Belfast Giants soap opera, each team pays the league £1700 per month to cover running costs and referees. One to add to your calculations I think it's becoming apparent, no matter what way you cut it, that being an Elite League team is a major financial commitment for the owners of a club our size.
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Post by flyer007 on Mar 19, 2013 0:10:19 GMT
I agree it is a major financial commitment no doubt about that. The key to running a club like ours successfully is to work as hard as possible to exhaust every sponsorship avenue possible. Continue to develop british players of the future and put a successful product on the ice to maintain a high turnover.
It is not unrealistic to think ticket prices will go up for next season but look at it this way if your average ticket price is £13 and you get 1500 in the building, you create a turnover of (13x1500) = 19 500 + 500 from 50/50 and Chuck a Puck you turnover close to 20 000 per game. Providing you get through to the Challenge Cup knockout stages and the Playoffs you should be able to afford 11 imports and a competitive hockey team whilst getting the numbers to pretty much balance.
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finchy
Pro
Posts: 1,567
EIHL Team: Fife Flyers
NHL Team: New Jersey Devil
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Post by finchy on Mar 19, 2013 0:23:35 GMT
I agree it is a major financial commitment no doubt about that. The key to running a club like ours successfully is to work as hard as possible to exhaust every sponsorship avenue possible. Continue to develop british players of the future and put a successful product on the ice to maintain a high turnover. It is not unrealistic to think ticket prices will go up for next season but look at it this way if your average ticket price is £13 and you get 1500 in the building, you create a turnover of (13x1500) = 19 500 + 500 from 50/50 and Chuck a Puck you turnover close to 20 000 per game. Providing you get through to the Challenge Cup knockout stages and the Playoffs you should be able to afford 11 imports and a competitive hockey team whilst getting the numbers to pretty much balance. I think Tom Muir has stated previously that you don't budget for what you might get and it's a mistake other teams have made- budgeting for crowds of xxxx which often dont materialise. My guess is that our crowds this season will form the basis of what they think we can afford to spend next year. People talk about the huge crowds we'd get if we were successful but realistically are we ever going to properly 'pack the barn' regularly ever again? I think it's almost impossible to imagine in the near future- the complete lack of away support most weeks and lack of a proper bitter rivalry makes it unlikely IMO.
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Post by mucklemoo on Mar 19, 2013 0:41:47 GMT
I would first like to say hi to everyone. First post on the forum! I've only very recently started going with my son to games. This has been after watching the complete financial meltdown of my football club (Pars). It has been soul destroying but watching the Flyers has given me and my son something to look forward to and we are planning on getting season tickets for the next season. The Flyers should be ambitious, the fans demand it! But under no circumstances must they overreach or spend money they do not have. You just have to look down Dunfermline way to see what can happen.
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Post by coloradoflyer on Mar 19, 2013 7:56:05 GMT
welcome to the fourm bud, i think the difference is though the pars had a bonified crook in charge flyers dont'
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Post by mucklemoo on Mar 19, 2013 8:14:30 GMT
welcome to the fourm bud, i think the difference is though the pars had a bonified crook in charge flyers dont' Never a truer word said Colorado! Anyway, I don't want to hijack the thread with talk of a failed football team. Come on you Flyers ;D
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Post by sparkymark75 on Mar 19, 2013 8:20:55 GMT
It's not nice to see any sporting club go to the wall, at the end of the day, people are losing their jobs.
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Post by flyer007 on Mar 19, 2013 12:06:57 GMT
Absolutely Davie of course u don't budget on 1500 but you could easily budget on 1250 beachside our average attendance is over that. Attracting a major sponsor will give us a great chance to compete at a higher level in the future. People always talk about the negatives living in fife in terms of attracting sponsorship compared to the panthers, steelers etc and that is true but there are also advantages being an owner in fife for instance, house prices are cheaper and ice time will be cheaper compared to the arena teams. We should certainly be able to match or spend more than the likes of Dundee, hull and Edinburgh.
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