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Dec 21, 2019 7:44:31 GMT
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Post by zamboni on Dec 21, 2019 7:44:31 GMT
Sam Jones is a great example of what is required He come through via EPL That’s where Fife Blood needs to go Make a name there then next step EIHL
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Post by thebluewellies on Dec 21, 2019 9:37:59 GMT
In an ideal world but what happens if they have work commitments, house commitments, family commitments to Fife? How are they going to finance their seasons playing away improving, all for a couple of relatively low paid seasons back at Fife on their return.
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Post by greyhound on Dec 21, 2019 10:34:07 GMT
I accept that some of the Fife juniors will not be good enough. There's no doubt the SNL is 90% poor, and will not be enough to develop them past say 16 to 18 years old. But if our best are in and around the GB squads with the best the country has to offer, if they are making the Scotland squads and competing also with these players and not struggling (ie the Scotland England 19s games we all saw on tv) then something is going wrong from Flyers side. How has Kris Inglis at Dundee managed? No better at all than likes of Marty Simpson, he has simply consistently been given a chance. If Flyers never try they will never know, training is not the same! It's clear to see players of a similar standard all around the league getting a chance where TD will not. And it starts with a few shifts, then a few more, then more if folk injured, then at least you know, actually are they good enough.
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Dec 21, 2019 12:04:44 GMT
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Post by greyhound on Dec 21, 2019 12:04:44 GMT
And also anyone who has watched kestrels over last few seasons will have seen boys like Smith, Cochrane, Robertson all looking very average at times, this season wands, Muir, Wilson also looking very average, yet for wands in particular wasn't that long ago flyers fans saw him with a regular elite shift and waxed lyrical. So you cannot judge from SNL always which boys have the potential to be more if coached properly, in kestrels they are not coached any where near the standard to even start looking at the gap.
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Post by waterboy on Dec 21, 2019 14:38:03 GMT
Sam Jones is a great example of what is required He come through via EPL That’s where Fife Blood needs to go Make a name there then next step EIHL Sam spent 6 years in Canada being developed between the ages 12 - 18. Then had one season in the EPIHL with MK (6/7 imports and a lot of EIHL ex players on most teams). Another year back in Canada in junior B before last season with Swindon in the NIHL. He is 22 he is a fully grown man it might be his first season in the EIHL but he isnt coming in as a raw teenager who needs massive development work. The route he has taken costs a lot of cash and isn't one that is open to pretty much most players.
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Post by chasingthepuck on Dec 21, 2019 15:18:34 GMT
This is why we should have been developing guys up to 18 then if possible farm them to nihl teams for a few years then bring them back, but naw we just let them go and play 2 and a half lines then all imports and up playing hurt
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Post by Dirty Lyle on Dec 21, 2019 18:38:05 GMT
This is why we should have been developing guys up to 18 then if possible farm them to nihl teams for a few years then bring them back, but naw we just let them go and play 2 and a half lines then all imports and up playing hurt Ok then coach..how are we going to develop them to the age of 18...what can we do different...and then give me an idea how we will farm them out to nihl teams, so we still have them attached to our club whilst paying for their housing and wages down south, in the hope that one day they might be good enough for elite, because most of the nihl Brits won't ever see elite hockey or be anywhere good enough. Read Waterboys previous post ..Sam Jones had to go to Canada to develop...all these ideas of yours are pie in the sky ..simple fact is our leagues and junior system are not set up for players to play top level pro hockey. When there was 6 or 8 imports ..good British players got a space ..now with 14 you need to be exceptional. And every player in Britain is looking for one of the few spots..so the chance of one of our local players getting a spot on any team is slim to none.
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Post by waterboy on Dec 21, 2019 19:36:35 GMT
This is why we should have been developing guys up to 18 then if possible farm them to nihl teams for a few years then bring them back, but naw we just let them go and play 2 and a half lines then all imports and up playing hurt Ok then coach..how are we going to develop them to the age of 18...what can we do different...and then give me an idea how we will farm them out to nihl teams, so we still have them attached to our club whilst paying for their housing and wages down south, in the hope that one day they might be good enough for elite, because most of the nihl Brits won't ever see elite hockey or be anywhere good enough. Read Waterboys previous post ..Sam Jones had to go to Canada to develop...all these ideas of yours are pie in the sky ..simple fact is our leagues and junior system are not set up for players to play top level pro hockey. When there was 6 or 8 imports ..good British players got a space ..now with 14 you need to be exceptional. And every player in Britain is looking for one of the few spots..so the chance of one of our local players getting a spot on any team is slim to none. You develop athletes first and hockey players second. Invest in the u16's u20's and employ a proper full-time strength and development coach who is responsible for the flyers and the juniors. Build a gym at the rink that focuses the player around their ability to perform at the highest level of physical effort during the season. Go benchmark at a club like Frolunda ask how can they produce homegrown talent over decades. What makes their young players excel from 18 onwards while ours regress or stall. Look at the icetime the juniors get is it enough are we doing enough with our top young guys right now to give them every possible chance to make it. Review the coaching these kids are getting, is it right (considering the success of KIHC it appears to be). Do a full review of how KIHC and the flyers interact to produce EIHL future players. None of this is hard none of this is rocket science. All of this is hard as the owners want to pay local established players peanuts so they are never going to invest in the homegrown players. How many times have you heard Dutes speak about local guys needing to work on their fitness, its left upto them the club doesn't take any onwership. Liam Kirk - without his apprenticeship at the steelers would he were he is today? If he was a fife player he would never have gotten to where he is. We would still have to listen to how the gap is too big for young guys coming through. Never heard so much bull****. Play them train them and watch them become EIHL players.
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Post by Dirty Lyle on Dec 21, 2019 20:13:01 GMT
Ok then coach..how are we going to develop them to the age of 18...what can we do different...and then give me an idea how we will farm them out to nihl teams, so we still have them attached to our club whilst paying for their housing and wages down south, in the hope that one day they might be good enough for elite, because most of the nihl Brits won't ever see elite hockey or be anywhere good enough. Read Waterboys previous post ..Sam Jones had to go to Canada to develop...all these ideas of yours are pie in the sky ..simple fact is our leagues and junior system are not set up for players to play top level pro hockey. When there was 6 or 8 imports ..good British players got a space ..now with 14 you need to be exceptional. And every player in Britain is looking for one of the few spots..so the chance of one of our local players getting a spot on any team is slim to none. You develop athletes first and hockey players second. Invest in the u16's u20's and employ a proper full-time strength and development coach who is responsible for the flyers and the juniors. Build a gym at the rink that focuses the player around their ability to perform at the highest level of physical effort during the season. Go benchmark at a club like Frolunda ask how can they produce homegrown talent over decades. What makes their young players excel from 18 onwards while ours regress or stall. Look at the icetime the juniors get is it enough are we doing enough with our top young guys right now to give them every possible chance to make it. Review the coaching these kids are getting, is it right (considering the success of KIHC it appears to be). Do a full review of how KIHC and the flyers interact to produce EIHL future players. None of this is hard none of this is rocket science. All of this is hard as the owners want to pay local established players peanuts so they are never going to invest in the homegrown players. How many times have you heard Dutes speak about local guys needing to work on their fitness, its left upto them the club doesn't take any onwership. Liam Kirk - without his apprenticeship at the steelers would he were he is today? If he was a fife player he would never have gotten to where he is. We would still have to listen to how the gap is too big for young guys coming through. Never heard so much bull****. Play them train them and watch them become EIHL players. Very good...and where is this money coming from, it's not the Flyers place to provide all this for the junior teams, in the hope that one might make it to senior level..where is Liam Kirk now...he is not playing for the club that invested in him , Flyers are not Sheffield with their resources and Liam Kirk learned his trade not at the Steelers but at nihl level which is something we don't have.
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Changes?
Dec 21, 2019 20:45:06 GMT
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Post by waterboy on Dec 21, 2019 20:45:06 GMT
You develop athletes first and hockey players second. Invest in the u16's u20's and employ a proper full-time strength and development coach who is responsible for the flyers and the juniors. Build a gym at the rink that focuses the player around their ability to perform at the highest level of physical effort during the season. Go benchmark at a club like Frolunda ask how can they produce homegrown talent over decades. What makes their young players excel from 18 onwards while ours regress or stall. Look at the icetime the juniors get is it enough are we doing enough with our top young guys right now to give them every possible chance to make it. Review the coaching these kids are getting, is it right (considering the success of KIHC it appears to be). Do a full review of how KIHC and the flyers interact to produce EIHL future players. None of this is hard none of this is rocket science. All of this is hard as the owners want to pay local established players peanuts so they are never going to invest in the homegrown players. How many times have you heard Dutes speak about local guys needing to work on their fitness, its left upto them the club doesn't take any onwership. Liam Kirk - without his apprenticeship at the steelers would he were he is today? If he was a fife player he would never have gotten to where he is. We would still have to listen to how the gap is too big for young guys coming through. Never heard so much bull****. Play them train them and watch them become EIHL players. Very good...and where is this money coming from, it's not the Flyers place to provide all this for the junior teams, in the hope that one might make it to senior level..where is Liam Kirk now...he is not playing for the club that invested in him , Flyers are not Sheffield with their resources and Liam Kirk learned his trade not at the Steelers but at nihl level which is something we don't have. Your question was what can we do different. Not how can we pay for something different. “It’s not flyers job to invest” never heard anything so daft in a long time. Why would they invest so they can be better in the long term. I mean it’s not like that could lead to reduction in the imports you bring in less but higher quality. You know like our grand slam BNL team! You do realise the EIHL is looking to reduce imports numbers. Your rational appears to be don’t spend money time or effort as the best players will just leave. On Liam Kirk read this: There isn’t any pressure on these two for next season. They will be with us every day, on the ice and in the gym. They will be worked on by our fitness coach Danny Mawer throughout the summer. They will be on the team for pre season and exhibition games. We will most probably loan them back to the Steeldogs where they will gain valuable ice time. They are a project and we will give them every chance to succeed. These two boys want it, you can see that working with them. If they aren’t ready in year one we know we have time on our side” That’s from Thommo when they signed both Kirk (at 16) and Shudra (17) imagine if our club thought even a little like this. We have sponsors willing to put money into this club and junior teams so let’s not pretend there isn’t options on the table.
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Post by amazepux on Dec 21, 2019 21:00:14 GMT
'Never heard so much bull****. Play them train them and watch them become EIHL players'
Or more accurately
'Play them train them and watch the team tumble to rock bottom of league a bit like season 1 in EHL'
Only top notch junior talent will succeed in this league.
As said above the brits that get some ice in this league learn their trade building up skill and toughness because they play a few seasons at NIHL or EPL or on foreign shores This is a much greater skill fitness level than SNL. Looking to compare with Frolunda is idiotic imo. How many imports in their league.
The cost to farm out promising juniors to EPL or NIHL like Solway would be too expensive and possibly unachievable due to work/family commitments.
Even if someone could go how much would it cost? A few hundred quid a week? Thats a few hundred quid a week that cant be spent on actual playing squad.
It works for teams like Sheffield cos they are on 2 way deals with Steeldogs. Or Betteridge/Tetlow at Panthers etc
The simplistic 'train them play them' theory hasnt been thought through properly imo
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Changes?
Dec 21, 2019 22:29:06 GMT
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Post by waterboy on Dec 21, 2019 22:29:06 GMT
'Never heard so much bull****. Play them train them and watch them become EIHL players' Or more accurately 'Play them train them and watch the team tumble to rock bottom of league a bit like season 1 in EHL' Only top notch junior talent will succeed in this league. As said above the brits that get some ice in this league learn their trade building up skill and toughness because they play a few seasons at NIHL or EPL or on foreign shores This is a much greater skill fitness level than SNL. Looking to compare with Frolunda is idiotic imo. How many imports in their league. The cost to farm out promising juniors to EPL or NIHL like Solway would be too expensive and possibly unachievable due to work/family commitments. Even if someone could go how much would it cost? A few hundred quid a week? Thats a few hundred quid a week that cant be spent on actual playing squad. It works for teams like Sheffield cos they are on 2 way deals with Steeldogs. Or Betteridge/Tetlow at Panthers etc The simplistic 'train them play them' theory hasnt been thought through properly imo So developing a few 17/18 year old guys means it’s season one all over again. What the hell are you talking about??? Care to expand why learning from the top European club is idiotic. The post I answered asked what are we going to do different. I suggested a few things. Oh and my post wasn’t just train them play them, I made it pretty clear there is a hell of a lot more to it than just that. Or maybe I am being too simplistic.
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Post by chasingthepuck on Dec 21, 2019 22:48:45 GMT
Paul Thompson told me when he coached Aalborg, the difference between young guys in Scandinavia and Europe compared to Britain and they are better for many season, some of which are basically culture they they are taught from an early age right up to senior hockey, strenght, conditioning, building your core, mentally being ready all that stuff skating as well, and the stock skill is learned mainly away from the rink so why are we not trying this approach oh yeah I forgot 1. Our owner does it on the cheap 2. It's all about making money in this league so stuff trying to make our home grown players better
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Post by domi28 on Dec 21, 2019 23:05:22 GMT
Noticed on Facebook that a junior from Fife Harvey Topen has left to play for Dundee in the SNL, anyone know of this is another loss to the flyers future? Harvey Topen is from Dundee(Inchture) played with them last few years. Started at Dundee and came to Fife for a couple of years then went back to Dundee. He left Dundee to play for Dundee!!
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Post by zamboni on Jan 8, 2020 19:28:03 GMT
Change is coming ? Is there a message in this ?
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