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Post by sparkymark75 on Feb 4, 2013 23:52:57 GMT
Now I just need to know if I'm in the 1 camp, or the 100 camp Allan ;-) You and I are lighting the camp fire in the 1 camp Davie ;D
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Post by sparkymark75 on Feb 4, 2013 23:59:08 GMT
In answer to the question posed, I'm assuming your suggesting we can't have both? Everyone involved with the running of the club seem to be bought into the cause which gives them the confidence that things are moving in the right direction. Unfortunately, the fans don't have that privilege.
I guess time will tell how things pan out. On your point of players returning, here's hoping some of this years players are asked back.
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Post by daviejojo on Feb 5, 2013 0:01:33 GMT
Now I just need to know if I'm in the 1 camp, or the 100 camp Allan ;-) You and I are lighting the camp fire in the 1 camp Davie ;D Haha, now where are my matches :-)
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Post by theweeman on Feb 5, 2013 0:04:17 GMT
In answer to the question posed, I'm assuming your suggesting we can't have both? Everyone involved with the running of the club seem to be bought into the cause which gives them the confidence that things are moving in the right direction. Unfortunately, the fans don't have that privilege. I guess time will tell how things pan out. On your point of players returning, here's hoping some of this years players are asked back. Sheffield, Nottingham, Belfast, etc have been playing at this level for years and have the nucleus of a settled roster. It will take time for us to match that. I do believe we can win our conference this season but after two seasons that would be a major achievement
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Post by daviejojo on Feb 5, 2013 0:06:32 GMT
Also, on a serious note, I think the very fact these discussions take place, do show the fans care a great deal. Some may voice an opinion more than others, but in the main, it's constructive and I'm sure we all want to see the same end result.
Would I have liked to see things happen quicker? The answer of course is yes, i don't see Flyers being a gamble for investment, I think all folks want is transparency. I can handle running 10 imports, if we just knew the logic behind the decision.
I know it's not as simple as PxQ means 11 imports, but I'm sure that's what fans want to hear.
Flyers TV is great, the podcast is great, so from that angle, it's night and day from before. Maybe another fans forum would be constructive and useful too.
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Post by jaf541 on Feb 5, 2013 0:13:54 GMT
Can i ask Alan what makes the flyers fans special, sounds to me as PR at its best. They may have more fans or less fans than other clubs.. but they are no better or worse.. I wonder if you would have said these words if you were still employed at Dundee..sounds hollow.. only my opinion , am sure other will be delighted with your views I think Flyers Fans are special. Reason being that when visitors come into KIA to play the Flyers its like we are inviting them into our home. There ae a great many flyers fans who's parents and in this day Who's Grandparents skated in and enjoyed the social atmosphere in KIrkcaldy Ice Rink. My Father is 86 yrs old now and still tells story's of being at the rink to skate and also to watch Hockey. So we are special as supporters because there ae a few generations of us who , when "we are Old and Grey, will still be guan tae Rosslyn Street to see the FLYERS PLAY"
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ronniemac
Pro
Posts: 1,520
NHL Team: Chicago Blackhawks
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Post by ronniemac on Feb 5, 2013 0:53:33 GMT
Allan, I'm finding this very hard to write, all the fans problems have always focused on, 1. No communication 2. Cut backs in playing staff on the import front. These were easy problems to fix but here we are at the sharp end of the season and you start this topic telling us how hard it is to run a team, mistakes have been made and that old chestnut Rome wasn't built in a day. You also forgot to mention that not only were you offered a job at Stars midway through this season but you accepted the job to the extent it was printed in their programme ( 1 can be supplied if you want to see it ). Flyers fans have had years of experience listening to the last 2 coaches telling us that they are looking for the right guy blah, blah, blah only to never find him. Why is it that the only team in whatever league they play in are short-handed including the NIHL beer league are the Fife Flyers ? 75 years of tradition everybody keeps being reminded, never mind Rome its 15 - 20 guys you need and on the build up a nucleus of a team subject we managed to keep 2 coaches from last year other than the local lads,looks like we've got our work cut out because what player in his right mind would want to work for an owner who on the face of it has no ambition by starting in a Pro league 2 men down and stay that way until others like last year fall into our lap. Same scenarios as last year and the coach has the headache of injuries and suspensions leading to an even shorter bench again, there are plenty of lessons to be learned but they sure are not rocket science or insurmountable ones. PR, A massive step in the right direction but every one is a repeat almost apart from the oppositions name, i could have written Todds scripts they are so repetitive and like your own start to this topic . as informative as a politicians speech, they never give a straight answer either.
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Post by graz94 on Feb 5, 2013 1:09:44 GMT
My own personal opinion is that because of how well the team are doing this season (at home mostly), expectations are sky rocketing.
Comparing it to last year where we were just happy to not get hammered by the big boys and couldn't buy a win at the start, then the travesty of sidds and hammy departing with their own agenda is quickly forgotten.
We have still struggled on the road this season and that in my opinion is something that will cost us the conference. Not an extra import. We have also been very unlucky with suspensions and injuries. Everyone's answer... The magical 11th import. What if someone comes in and upsets the balance or just doesn't fit in? It won't help, it must be the right guy and the right fit.
People need a reality check when it comes to expectations. Quite simply, if this team make the playoffs it will be a very successful season. Some people will say, we could have had more, but at what cost??
My main worry is not this season, it's keeping these guys together for next and finding Brits to step up and help out. We have the nucleus of a great squad and I'd rather see them all back next year than another import come in this one.
Long term for me, my tuppence and a half worth!
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Post by theweeman on Feb 5, 2013 1:15:08 GMT
I was waiting on your response Ronnie and you haven't disappointed. Firstly I do know that it was written by Charlie Ward in the Dundee programme that I had accepted but the truth is that it wasn't so. And that caused major problems not only for me but both clubs.
What Flyers have achieved in two seasons is remarkable and it will get better. In spite of the claims you spout on here you don't know what goes on behind the scenes.
I agree that communication is a problem and it is one that we are working on. Even you cannot deny that improvements have been made. We have been an EIHL club for less than two years and we are making progress.
However I have come to expect negative posts from you. You have NO idea what is going on behind the scenes and the work that the coaches AND directors put into this club.
What I am saying is that Fife Flyers are heading in the right direction and if you can't see that then I suggest you remove the blinkers.
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Post by flyer007 on Feb 5, 2013 1:54:28 GMT
Firstly I would like to say welcome back Allan. Great to see you back contributing on the forum.
The way I see it, is we have done pretty well coming from an amateur club to where we are now. It is obvious that large strides have been made however, we have probably just touched the tip of the iceberg in terms of the potential of this club.
Coming back to the pro ranks meant we were back to square 1 in terms of our business structure the glory days were over last season was effectively year 1. The less mentioned about year 1 the better. I would say there was only 3 positives last year: Fife returning to the top level of British Ice Hockey and the addition of Ross and Allan.
Into year 2 and some of the same mistakes have been made there can be no doubt about that. We still don't have the biggest employer in the kingdom on our jerseys in Diageo. I am sure that enquiries have been made to this company but we need to do whatever it takes to get the Diageo group onboard. I think we have done quite well sponsorship wise with local small businesses obviously getting Western Toyota on board is an important acquisition to our sponsorship portfolio but I am sure you would agree Allan there are more than a few untapped sources of revenue out there.
On the ice it has been a frustrating year we have seen huge improvements in some of the British players. I think Horney has been much better this year, Hamish is proving his worth, Doley has done OK but would of done better on the right line and Gunny has played well post christmas. The imports we have are good; only 2 or 3 are exceptional but there isn't a bad player amongst them and it seems from the stands as if they really care.
We do have the potential to be a top 4 club. We want it now but to get the off-ice stuff in my mind to where it needs to be it will take time. As long as we work together for the future of this club the club will have success.
I think what has frustrated everyone is the lack of meaningful communication these last few weeks. We were told in interview after interview with Todd that he has to get the green light. He would not have made an offer to Krestanovich if he had to wait on a green light so the communication that we as fans received was misleading; it put the blame entirely at the directors door. Their is still too much of a gap between the fans and the directors and this needs to be bridged. We are a small club and small clubs succeed by everyone working in tandem together.
My only real issue at the minute is the match night experience. It is pretty poor, there is nothing exciting at the period intervals, the music is pretty poor, we have gone from having the best announcer in the league to one of the poorest in my opinion and the atmosphere in the building is not generated as well as it could be. Geordie Munro should not have a backing track it should be sung by the fans as that is what generates noise. It really needs an overhaul. I remember back to the BNL the butterflies you used to get as the lights dropped and the boys came out was fantastic and unfortunately the same feeling is not there anymore. The atmosphere is also hampered by the national anthem every game but that is outwith the clubs control.
I am not sure if the match night experience is part of your role but it needs to be looked at. If your not a true hockey fan you probably won't enjoy your night. We may be a sport but what people are looking for is entertainment and the match night is not exciting enough in my opinion.
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Post by nobabody on Feb 5, 2013 9:15:57 GMT
i'd be surprised if Diageo employed more people than the NHS, sorry, and surely Diageo are more likely to come on board in future having seen the progress thats being made, afterall who wants to sponsor the team that finishes last with barely a win to their name, 8 from 54 last season!
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Post by daviejojo on Feb 5, 2013 9:24:34 GMT
I think that's a very good post Flyer007. It's about that £15 you spend (or more if your familes etc, but you know what I mean). You want to come out feeling your glad you put £15 in the till, and that doesn't always happen, I'm sure for a variety of reasons.
I don't feel best placed to comment directly on the experience at the moment, as due to my home location, I haven't actually made it up to a home game since early December, but that doesn't stop me from feeling part of the club. I get to as many home games as the 1,000 mile round trip allows (7 so far this season), and have the benefit of getting to Coventry and Cardiff etc with them being my nearest EIHL arena's.
I have to give full credit to the players, they always make that extra effort after the MOM awards to head to their away fans, which in some instances are very few (3 of us last time in Cardiff), and that just makes you feel very much appreciated for going along. It's such a small gesture, but one that you can't put a price on.
And I think this is the key, that is not something you feel from our owners. I'm sure there is a hell of a lot goes on behind the scene's, I don't doubt it, but there is definitely a perception, regardless if it's right, or wrong, but there's a perception that they couldn't really care less if you came or not. They'll take your money, but that's as far as it goes. Now that may come over as a little blunt, and I don't feel I know the directors to make a sweeping statement with any authority, but as I say, its perception. This is where I see most of the fans having their issue. It's about transparancy, and communication. Flyers TV is great, as is the new podcase, and Steven does a power of work on the website, but it would be great to actually hear from the owners too, and just better understand how the budget works. Why didn't we go with 11 imports? Was it financial? Was it an ethical decision based on brits? I don't really need to see the maths in black and white, I don't think anyone does, but it's these kind of key decisions, that if made public and some kind of broadcast, would negate 70-80% of the negative comments on here.
I am probably one of the most publicly critical of the directors, I'm well aware of that, but I am equally sure, they do a hell of a lot of things that isn't getting made public, and that they should be getting credit for, but they simply aren't very good at getting those messages out to the fans, and I know of quite a few people who are voting with their feet now, and not heading along to the rink at the weekends. That is so avoidable, it's essential revenue, and some kind of fans forum again, or even a good 15 minute interview on Flyers TV would go a long way to restoring the faith and the belief that Flyers are on track, and what the short, medium and long term plans really are.
I am so passionate about the club, I just want to see it succeed, and like most on here, know how good it could be.
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Post by coloradoflyer on Feb 5, 2013 9:29:02 GMT
allan,ross and steven all breathe fife flyers the fans all breathe it to we are special fans for many reason and most of which have been mentioned , i think we have come a long way form last year , but like has been said injuries and suspensions at the worng time and not getting the bounce of the puck a few nights have cost us away from home, i think danny and todd have done a great job with recuitement this year the guys that have come in are fantastic, i do think we need may be a 2 more players to help us absorb injury and suspension, allan has done a great job getting buisness's onboard and i also think it would be great to have a company like diageo onboard but you can only ask and if they say no nothing you can do about it, keep up the great work guys i know you are all working like troopers to make this place successful again. let's all get behind the team and get behind the guys that are trying to make this club great again, COYF - it's time to play the game , let's get ready to rrrruuuummmbbbllleeeeeeeeeee
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Post by harlan on Feb 5, 2013 10:39:17 GMT
This communicating with the fans thing by people who own clubs is an incredibly fine line.
Would you want people like Paul Ragan and David Simms at the Flyers who can at times be an incredible embarrassment for their clubs on social media sites or do it the way Tom Muir does it for us. It has to be somewhere in the middle doesn't it?
Those of us who were at the Flyers fans forum last season could see that Tom Muir was painfully uncomfortable in the public spotlight with the fans, it appeared to be just not his thing and he left most of the talking to Jack Wishart and Todd.
So maybe that there is the problem, the guy who is seen to be the main driving force of the club isn't totally sure or comfortable how to get things across to the fans the way we would like.
I am just speculating here as I actually have no idea whether this is right or not.
I do agree with Graz that because of how our home form has been this year, we are 15 & 6 at the barn and only the big arena teams have better home records, that peoples expectations for a second year team at this level are tending to be unrealistic.
Yes we have the potential to be the best team outside of Nottingham, Sheffield and Belfast and be on the same level as Cardiff and Coventry every season but we are only a year 2 team at this level so for us to have done what we have so far this season compared to last season is remarkable and definately something to be built on both on and off the ice.
The answer to Allans original question, it depends on what you mean by immediate success? Do you mean winning a trophy this year? Or do you mean building for the long term sustainability and a better on and off ice product? For me there is different meanings of immediate success
This season and how competitive the team has been will mean it will be a lot easier to recruit players to come for next season. How difficult would it be next season to get the quality players we have this year if it looked like we were only going to win 8 games again and finish bottom?
The on ice success this year will encourage more sponsors to think about putting money into the team for next season and it then creates a better on ice product and it all becomes cyclical.
We have had to go through incredibly tough growing pains to get to here, those of us who have seen a lot of away games will bare testimony to that, and we still have a lot of growing to do to get to where most of us want to be.
Is it frustrating to go to places like Dundee, Edinburgh and Hull and see them have more imports than us and then look at the crowds they have for their home games and how little amount of fans they bring to Kirkcaldy compared to how many we take away from home? Of course it is and I would love us to be on level playing field with everybody else but what we have done for the majority of this season with 9 imports and second year Brits at this level shows that it is a joke that teams feel the need to have the import level at 11, its a joke at even 10, and sometimes the majority of those extra two imports are no better than trying to develop British players, so why put the extra expense on imports when guys like Josh Scoon can get ice time and not let you down
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finchy
Pro
Posts: 1,567
EIHL Team: Fife Flyers
NHL Team: New Jersey Devil
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Post by finchy on Feb 5, 2013 10:44:07 GMT
I'm positive that behind the scenes things are improving and most importantly for any fan of a club the teams results have improved.
As well as the product on the ice, my opinion is that the club need to focus on other things the fans actually see as well as things they won't. Most of us are happy for Flyers to be seen as a club of great tradition but would also like us to, from the outside, look like we are operating in the 21st century.
Little things could make a world of difference... and communication of course is the biggie. I don't care how passionate people are, or if they're 'volunteers'- if they can't write a 140 character tweet or facebook message that makes sense or that isn't riddled with typos then it's no use. The articles on the web-site have improved slightly recently but are no better than what your average amateur club comes up with.
Match-night 'experience' is IMO absolutely brutal at the moment and needs more thought. You can't underestimate in this day and age the importance of that- particularly with so many young fans.
It's my perception that people within the club (or even on the fringes) are completely dismissive of fans concerns and are happy to roll out the "bunch of moaners" card. Every club has it's lunatic fringe but in my opinion many of the concerns are genuine and not unreasonable. The fans are loyal and just want the best possible for the club. If one or two small things could be addressed you might find people starting to focus more on the positives- and I agree there are plenty.
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